Welcome back to the Numerologist podcast. I hope you’re all enjoying the festive period in the lead up to Christmas. I’m in Australia, so it’s always a hot Christmas for me but being from the Uk, I’m used to a cold one, so, if it’s chilly where you are, embrace that for me even it feels a little bit miserable for you.
This episode of the Numerologist podcast is a magickal one indeed.
Shawn Engel is the brand strategist and spiritual mentor behind, Witchy Wisdoms. She is the author of Cosmopolitan’s Love Spells (Sterling), Power of Hex (Chicago Review Press), the upcoming Witches Brew (Sterling), and the matriarch of The Boss Mystic Podcast Network. She has successfully leveraged social media and currently has over 50k followers in her social community under the handle @witchywisdoms.
But the Shawn before the followers that we’ll explore today. Her story of how she embraced her magickal side to liberate her from a life of drugs and partying is one that you have to hear.
So, without further ado, let’s welcome Shawn to the show.
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Here’s what we discuss:
- How Shawn became a witch; what her childhood was life
- The shocking reason Shawn turned her life around
- The way Shawn helps her magickal community
Show Links
- Your Free Numerology Report – https://video.numerologist.com
- Shawn’s website: https://witchywisdoms.com
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Speaker 1:
Welcome to the Numerologist Podcast, where we bring you a very special guest every single week to help guide you on your spiritual journey, live with abundance and inspire your soul.
Speaker 2:
Welcome back to the Numerologist podcast. I hope you’re all enjoying the festive period in the lead up to Christmas. I’m in Australia, so it’s always a hot Christmas for me but being from the Uk, I’m used to a cold one, so, if it’s chilly where you are, embrace that for me even it feels a little bit miserable for you.
This episode of the Numerologist podcast is a magickal one indeed.
Shawn Engel is the brand strategist and spiritual mentor behind, Witchy Wisdoms. She is the author of Cosmopolitan’s Love Spells (Sterling), Power of Hex (Chicago Review Press), the upcoming Witches Brew (Sterling), and the matriarch of The Boss Mystic Podcast Network. She has successfully leveraged social media and currently has over 50k followers in her social community under the handle @witchywisdoms.
But the Shawn before the followers that we’ll explore today. Her story of how she embraced her magickal side to liberate her from a life of drugs and partying is one that you have to hear.
So, without further ado, let’s welcome Shawn to the show.
Hey, Shawn. Thanks for joining us.
Shawn:
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2:
I want to really explore your magical world because magic is always something that fascinates me so much. Before we get to what you do now, let’s take a look at your journey to actually getting there. How did it all start for you?
Shawn:
Oh, it’s a long story, long and arduous story with so many different evolutions. I’m a triple Scorpio, so it was definitely true to the brand but in terms of the magical beginnings, I was always a spooky kid.
Speaker 2:
I love that.
Shawn:
[inaudible 00:00:55]. Right, making potions in the backyard with flowers and mud and going on those … You remember those old websites that had red font and bad like gifs and looking up spells and sitting on the floor in Barnes & Noble and looking up palmistry books and astrology books. My magical journey started there and just dabbling, not necessarily taking it seriously, I was however old I was 12, 13. What do you really take seriously then?
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Shawn:
It was always part of me but after that, at a very young age, I got into lots of trouble. It was the era of sex and drugs. It was a really devastating decade of just way too much self-destruction. Again, quite Scorpio.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Shawn:
Right and so I did lose touch just a little bit with the magical side. And also, if you’re in that much self destruction and self harm, it’s really hard to reach for things that can benefit you.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely.
Shawn:
Right, it’s more of an ego attachment. Lost touch with it a little bit. And then fast forward over to, let’s say, I think I was 24 years old, so quite a few years ago. I got into therapy and got my tarot deck back out and the rest is history.
Speaker 2:
Right. I’m interested to explore that 13, 14 year old you. Did you ever … Because I’ve spoken to a few witches before but they feel like they’ve actually come out as a witch. Did you talk to people about it then? Did you tell people you were interested in that kind of thing or was it just one of those side things that was in the back of your mind?
Shawn:
I was never officially in the broom closet. It was always part of me but it was always … Again, I prided myself on being strange. Yeah, I did a spell or I was the one that introduced it to my friends who always gave a side eye but reluctantly did them with me.
Speaker 2:
That’s always the case, isn’t it? They think it’s weird but they actually get into it themselves.
Shawn:
Exactly. And my birthday is October 29th, so it’s always right by Halloween. Every birthday party we were doing seances. It was definitely part of my brand from a very [inaudible 00:03:13] age.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. What did your parents think of it?
Shawn:
They were like, it’s Shawn being Shawn.
Speaker 2:
Well, that was good.
Shawn:
I was really fortunate. My mother is of Jewish faith. My father is a German Catholic and they asked me and my sister when we were really young, what we wanted to study religiously, if we wanted to do either. And I was like, “I’m going to be a witch.”
And my sister was like, “I’m an Aquarius. I don’t care.”
Speaker 2:
And that’s really refreshing because a lot of people you talk to, their parents would not be as … Especially if they have their own faith, they would not be as open to things like that. That’s quite refreshing that you were able to explore what you wanted to explore.
Shawn:
I think I was super, super lucky that my parents were 80s punk rockers. My dad was had pink hair and was a drummer in a punk band and my mom was a groupie. They were always way more open but yeah, I’m absolutely so fortunate to have had that upbringing.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, absolutely. You said … Okay, when you were about 24, you brought your tarot deck out again. What happened then? What was the big change?
Shawn:
My big Tower moment, it was the catalyst for Witchy Wisdoms but at the very tail end of my sex and drugs escapade, I got involved with … Who I didn’t realize at the time, I was in a lot of naive denial but he was a heroin addict. And I moved from Manhattan to New Jersey to basically support him, with the promise that he would eventually pay me back but we moved in together. And then two days after we moved in, he said, “Hey, I have a heroin addiction and I need to go to Florida to rehab.”
And my whole world crumbled. And just previously from that, I think the reason why I even got into that relationship in the first place is because I buried so much trauma from a sexual assault in the previous year. There was a lot to unpack and a lot of the reasons why I was brought to that Tower moment because these faded events that happen, it’s like you veered so far off course that something drastic has to take place. And I’m not saying it was … Oh, I found out. And then the next thing I know, I’m Witchy Wisdoms. It took a very, very long time for me to get into therapy, work through things, work through my worth and see that he was no longer a part of that life, to break up, to realize what boundaries were. I’d never even heard that word before therapy.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Shawn:
And then once I was in that mode of self-discovery, marrying the things that I was learning in therapy, like boundaries, big queen of swords energy with the taro, was so cathartic. That was the basis for all of my magic going forward.
Speaker 2:
Was it a difficult transition? Obviously, going from your old life to transitioning through that therapy period, how did it take its toll on you?
Shawn:
Oh, my gosh. Well, I have to say, I’m lucky in that I’m a very Mars ruled person. Determination was never … That was never an issue for me but I went through a thousand deaths in that period. Not to be dramatic but I was taking a train., I was taking three trains from Jersey city to Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, twice a week to see my very stoic German therapist who was in my network that I found on Zocdoc and was sliding scale. And it was so painful to revisit. I was so triggered by everything. We’re going deeper and unpacking so many things. That saying where it’s always darkest before the dawn …
Speaker 2:
Absolutely.
Shawn:
That was what it was.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of people when they have their moment, whatever it is. Whether they’ve come through a really dark period or they’ve just been living a life that isn’t necessarily who they are and they have that aha moment, like you said, it’s never a, “Aha. Oh, now everything’s all good.”
It’s an aha of , “I’ve got to go through all of this crap before I get to the good stuff.”
Right.
Shawn:
Absolutely. And that’s the thing with manifestation too. It’s like yeah, you can get it but then you have to implement it. It’s like, “What?”
Speaker 2:
Let’s start talking about … Okay, what was the moment that you started to go back into this witchy side of you and explore that? What did that look like?
Shawn:
It happened pretty organically. I’ll be honest. I’m a really big believer in signs or just things popping up in your periphery when they need to happen. Whether I was scrolling Instagram or looking through magazines or talking to people, the notion of magic just kept popping up, whether it was astrology or tarot or whatever. And it was just that dinging thing in the back of my head that was like, “Remember how helpful this was to you. And remember how this was a part of your personality.”
And I was just like, “Man, I think this is something … It’s calling to me.”
And it fit like a puzzle piece because yeah, therapy is great but it’s hard work, right. And it doesn’t feel as enlightening and fulfilling for me without the magical aspect of just that integration. That was just something that I needed. It works really well for some people on its own but I needed them in tandem and it worked so well for me.
Speaker 2:
And I think that’s an important point to note as well, isn’t it? Therapy isn’t for everyone. Therapy plus something might work for somebody else. And there’s so many different combinations of self-care, self-development and professional … Sorry, personal growth that people can go through. And I think that’s a really good point you highlighted. For anybody who’s out there going through therapy and thinking, “This isn’t working the way I want it to.”
There’s something out there that might be for you instead, right.
Shawn:
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. When did it go from magical Shawn for Shawn to magical Shawn for the collective and for clients and that kind of thing?
Shawn:
That again, was pretty organic and I want to say slow moving but now that I look back at it in the years that it’s taken me to culminate my brand, it was not slow. It was pretty fast. When I got to a point of like, “I have internalized this work. I’ve gotten to a point where I can at least see the other side of it.”
No one’s ever really on the other side of trauma but I felt that I was able to share it and I don’t know, just talk about it. And I was always a writer. Again, going back to that spooky kid version of myself, I was writing horror stories when I was in fifth grade and scaring my teachers. Writing was just always that tool that I used. I decided to write a blog because again, at the time … Now, I had lost so many jobs during the breakup because I was just unable to focus and also just was not meant for the line of work I was in. I was in the service industry and working as a GM. I got back into bartending and held the job for a while because I was more mentally well and able to perform but I was unfulfilled and I was like, “I need something in my life that’s going to help me move forward and give me purpose.”
I wrote the blog, Witchy Wisdoms. And married the tarot with therapy. And so every blog post was a card and was like, “Here are the practical applications for the magical nuances, used to be occult symbols.”
And it resonated with people. They were like, “Oh, this is really helpful.”
Then that turned into an Instagram. And when I realized I had a knack for social media, I was like, “I can get exposure doing this.”
And when I reached enough people, I was like, “I could be a life coach.”
I got certified. And that was I think, maybe three or four years after my therapy journey but then now that I do business coaching, it’s because the life coaching business took off so well. Those were the evolutions of it but yeah.
Speaker 2:
I do find that really interesting, how the magic and the business intertwined because there’s so many business coaches that they don’t niche down into anything specific but tell me, how have people responded to the magical element of your business coaching? Is it just spiritual people or people who are interested in the occult or the magical side of things? Or is it businesses as a whole, who they don’t necessarily have a magical leader at the helm if you will?
Shawn:
Well, it’s definitely taken all kinds. I’ve worked with everybody from non-profits for women in Guyana to artists, to tarot readers, to beauty brands. It’s run the gamut but what I’ve noticed, is it’s generally just who gravitates towards me, are women that struggle with empathy and worth. And I think that’s where the magical aspect ties in because again, being so good at the boundaries that I practiced, I can tell people that are healers by nature, whether it’s through beauty branding or helping women in Guyana or whatever the case may be, I help them heal but with integrity and from a standpoint that also supports them and helps them strategically keep scaling so that they can heal the masses versus being stuck in that loop of where you think you can only do the one thing and you can only help these certain people and it should all be for free and then nobody’s getting any value.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. And that’s something that a lot of people struggle with, isn’t it? Actually taking money and not doing something for free and that kind of thing. And it seems like a bit of a guilty thing. I know from personal experience, I started a business blog, since somebody private messaged me and said, “Where are the profits going for this?”
I’m like, “It’s a business. Why do people make people feel guilty about taking money?”
Shawn:
Honestly, I think that’s just full projection. And I actually, I’ve had that happen to me quite a few times. When people back out on contracts where the parameters are clearly stated, what is expected. And then they feel like I should have given them things for free. I’m like, “Well, my time and my energy isn’t free and you can take it or leave it. No one is making you pay this price but if you don’t value yourself, I’m pretty certain you’re not going to value me either.”
Speaker 2:
Absolutely.
Shawn:
Right and there’s a lot to unpack there and many different reasons because money is a sore spot for a lot of people but that’s generally the biggest culprit.
Speaker 2:
Let’s talk about what a session or what a … Work with with you looks like. If I came to you as a business, what would we do? What would a session look like?
Shawn:
It depends on … And this is if I’m doing business coaching, it depends on where you’re at but generally if I’m starting with mid level accounts, let’s say there’s maybe 5 to 10K followers, what we do through the course of two months, we’ll have 30 minute check-in calls but over the course of two months, we set up a content strategy that feels really easy but it also gets engagement and gets conversions. We at least set up that strategy so that it feels like a well-oiled machine. Once a week you can sit down, create content, boom. And then that part of the marketing side is down. And then it also has to do with product development, right. What kind of courses are you releasing? What kind of services are you offering to your community? But the overarching real work that I do and where it comes to be more spiritual is in the branding.
Those are the ABC strategies but we do a lot of shadow work around the brand because again, there’s a million tarot readers. There’s a million astrologers but what is it that you focus on? How are you adding your own flavor? For example, I worked with Astro Forecast, who’s on TikTok. I love her so much but we helped develop her brand to be a newscaster. That was how she delivered her astrology. And it resonated so well that she got over a hundred thousand followers on TikTok.
Speaker 2:
Wow.
Shawn:
It’s really because she felt into that character and felt akin to it. And it was part of her. And so it didn’t really feel inauthentic and she was struggling with visibility and then she just took off. That I think, is the real magical work that I do within it. And then everything else falls into place.
Speaker 2:
And I think what you just said there about authenticity, it’s something that we say so often but it’s something people find so difficult to actually find their authentic self. And it’s another one of those aha moments, when they do step into alignment with who they are and the path they’re supposed to be on, then everything moves in the way it should.
Shawn:
Well, yes. And I love that idea of authenticity being so elusive, right because I had to break down my own barriers with my authenticity in therapy because what we’re doing as adults, is collecting beliefs and we believe things about ourselves. We try to fit into a mold that other people will like. And especially faced with this slew of social media options to be a part of, we want to fit into a cookie cutter mold that not only will people resonate with but will also sell. It’s just so much compacting onto you. And just so much pressure, that when you have somebody that can guide you through it, just an objective observer, it becomes so much more helpful.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. And you don’t just work one-on-one, do you? You have courses and masterminds and those kinds of things. Can you tell me a bit more about those?
Shawn:
Yeah. Well, I’ve been doing this a while and I used to crank out so many courses. 2020 took a toll on me, I will say, so not as many new courses are out but I have so many different branding courses. I have Instagram courses, marketing courses, podcasting courses, branding courses. All of those are self study essentially. And I put them in a cool little portal, so you can find them all there. And you just work through the, module by module. They’re generally six modules long. You get homework but again, they’re self study. If that’s something that … You’re just looking to get either a refresh drawn or you’re brand new too, it’s a great first step to get in there. I find that the most magic that happens is the one-on-one stuff.
And then I will launch group containers because I find too … Especially people that are beginning to create their Instagram profiles or something, they all need to hit specific milestones. Grouping them together is generally just … It makes sense but the next thing that I’m doing, which I’m actually really, really excited for, is a six month long mastermind. And it’s not on business. It’s actually on personal development and growth. That I’m really excited for.
Speaker 2:
When are you starting that?
Shawn:
That’s actually coming up really soon. I called it the New Year New You Mastermind. I’m so excited and it’s starting January 18th but it’s a going back to basics. As I told you my story about learning boundaries and therapy and all that, I’m almost re-imagining that in this mastermind. Through the course of six months, we’re setting goals, we’re understanding, revisiting and re-appropriating boundaries. We are crushing shadow work. It’s just going to be deep, lots of real soul excavation and implementation, action steps, learning how to manifest but in the real way, not in the windfall of cash manifesting.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, absolutely.
Shawn:
Not to say it’s a farce, I’ve seen it happen before but I think people chase that in a way that’s unhealthy. And real manifesting is setting up boundaries, sticking by them, setting more and sticking by them. And really setting a clear trajectory for you to continuously get the things you want. It’s hard work.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And it’s funny you talk about that chasing money because I’ve heard before, when you chase money, you’re not chasing happiness. At the end of the day, you need to be happy within yourself, set those boundaries, do all the things within yourself. And then if money is what needs to come to you, then it’ll come to you, right.
Shawn:
Absolutely. And I don’t want to come from a very privileged standpoint and say that money doesn’t provide comfort because it absolutely does, especially in the pandemic world of 2020. If you’ve lost your job, then you’re not going to be happy simply because you can’t meet your basic human needs. I don’t want to negate that fact at all but you’re right, if you’re sitting in a comfortable level and you just think more and more and more is going to make you happier, you’re missing a really integral part of what true happiness or true peace rather, really is.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. Now, I want to go back to you as a witch because I’m really interested to find out, do you label yourself as a certain kind of witch? Are you a kitchen witch or garden witch? What are you, if you’re anything?
Shawn:
Honestly, I think I’m more of an eclectic witch. I like a grab bag of things. Yeah, I’ve always … Again, my parents were punk rockers, so I’ve never really liked to be labeled. Being eclectic was just a lot more comfortable for me. As far as occult scholar studies go, I do look into the Kabbalah and the Kabbalistic tree of life. Again, I have Jewish ancestry, so that always just felt really akin to me. Any type of high magic, I do dabble in but I don’t do ceremonial magic. It’s just something that I use as a meditative guide. And then I don’t know. I love candles and incense and the moon and astrology and …
Speaker 2:
Yes, I love candles too. Is there a candle witch because I think I might be one of those?
Shawn:
[inaudible 00:22:22] be candle witches.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, deal. What does your spell work look like?
Shawn:
Generally … I haven’t worked magic in a while, especially since it’s been eclipse season. I’m already getting a headache from this passing eclipse and I’m just like, “Oh, it’s been a rough one.”
… but I’ll do money spells and better business spells pretty frequently. And again, it’ll look like a seven day candle with my own particular ritual. I also love … Again, triple water sign. I love baths. Meditating in a bath and working magic in a bath is really important to me as well. I’ll marry the two sometimes but also, a lot of the time, as I’m a person suffers with mental health issues, sometimes I don’t have the energy and a lot of my spell work and magic has to do with honoring that as well.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Shawn:
It’s really just a gentleness.
Speaker 2:
And that’s really … Again, another powerful thing, is to think about who you are and what works for you. At the end of the day, you don’t have to say, “I’m a witch. I have to do a spell every single day.”
Right.
Shawn:
Right, exactly. Or even on every luminary, I know there are so many people that put so much pressure on themselves to make manifestations every single new moon. And it’s like, “Maybe your body’s not calling for you to do that right now. And you just need to be still.”
Speaker 2:
Yeah, exactly. And it’s all about listening to your body at the end of the day. I want to talk about your community and the spells you teach them. Is there a single spell that you start off your community with and say, “Okay, this is the one that everybody should do?”
Shawn:
Oh, okay. I love this question because simple answer no because I truly believe, especially as a person that prides themselves on autonomy and building businesses and all of that, I truly believe in DIY. Whether it’s in my books, whether it’s in my co-creation coven or whether I’m feeling fancy and want to do one in my Instagram, which I do very rarely or even … When have I done it before? I have a course called Spellbound Academia. All of these show you the pieces that you need to create a spell that is 100% yours and that will work with you because I’m a true believer, especially when it’s in business, that if you do something that doesn’t feel right to you, you will not do it and it won’t be successful.
And that is the same with magic. It’s the same with spell work. Some people are really uncomfortable doing something ceremonial or singing out loud and that nervous energy isn’t going to translate well on your spell work. I always teach people like, “Hey, these are correlations of crystals, herbs, whatever, whatever. These are certain things that will amplify whatever your intention is. This moon is good for that.”
… but it’s more of an educational and empowerment platform, rather than like, “You need to do X, Y, Z. And that’s it.”
Speaker 2:
I think the theme of this podcast is very much been there’s no one size fits all. There’s no cookie cutter solution. For you personally, did you go through a lot of different explorations to find out what worked for you?
Shawn:
Yeah. And even in my life, right. If you’re thinking about just that entire journey of drugs and boys, you keep trying different things. My whole life has just been an experiment. Even the business, it has gone through so many evolutions in a short time. And I think that’s why I encourage it so much because I want people to trust the process and love the evolution because as an authentic branding coach, your yesterday may not be authentic to you today.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely.
Shawn:
Yeah. Things change, they fluctuate. And I think it’s honoring that that’s really the crux of it.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. And that is again, something so important to note, to remember, is that we’re not the same person today as we were yesterday or will be tomorrow. And that’s okay. I think in our parents’ generations, it was very much … If we look at the jobs they had and their careers, it was pretty much get into one career, stay in that career. That’s who you are but it’s just not the case anymore, is it?
Shawn:
Well until you look at your parents and the boomer era, right and you see how much divorce happened when we were children and you see how many people that left their jobs and now had no idea what to do. And so I feel like unlearning that … And I guess it is technically ancestral trauma, to where you can really pave your own way and then love every iteration of your life because life is long. And to just settle down at 20 with a clear path, it’s just not practical. And I think probably that’s where it comes from for me too.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. What would you say to people who are potentially scared or embarrassed to explore the witchy side of them?
Shawn:
I would say that you can keep secrets. This is coming from a triple Scorpio. Have a secret, secrets are fun. Google things. If you’re afraid or embarrassed, do things in your own little private way and just start reading. Witchcraft is all about reading and studying. If you’re reading, you don’t really have to own anything yet. It’s the best thing to just dip a toe in. You also don’t need to share it with everyone. You certainly don’t need to share it on social media. You’re allowed to have secrets.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, absolutely. And I actually think that’s quite empowering because a lot of religions say to you, “If you don’t talk openly about your religion, then you’re denouncing it and you’re not a real whatever.”
… but with this, it’s quite empowering to know that you can be a witch and you don’t need to share that with everybody.
Shawn:
Yeah. Not everybody needs to know everything. And I think when living in the digital age, there’s this underlying notion that they do, they don’t. Have secrets.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. Now, we’re coming to the end of the podcast but I do want to just go on a bit of a tangent and talk about something else. I noticed that you’ve got quite a few tattoos and I’d love to understand whether they came before the witchiness, after the witchiness, as a result of the witchiness? What do they represent? Do each one of them represent something different?
Shawn:
Oh, I love that. They definitely came after the witchiness and I think that’s why they’re so good. I had the privilege of waiting until I was a little older to get tattoos. I have quite a few friends that still have a butterfly tramp stamp. I did well but this one is my Scorpio constellation and yeah. Generally, a lot of them are Scorpio related. I don’t think I know any Scorpio that doesn’t have at least two Scorpio tattoos.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. I think you’re so right.
Shawn:
[inaudible 00:29:45]. And then yeah, I have this moon on my bicep that I got in Berlin. I like to travel and collect tattoos. They were my momentos but yeah, now I have so many but they’re definitely a result of me embracing my full witchiness because it’s out there. It’s no secret.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. And I actually … It makes me want to see our community’s tattoos. If you’ve got tattoos, especially if you’re a Scorpio, now I think about it. If you’ve got tattoos that are spiritual or symbolic to you in some way, tag us on Instagram and tag Shawn and we will share them because I’d really be interested to see what tattoos you guys have because it’s always quite interesting, isn’t it? We actually did a blog the other day on top moon tattoos for your sign. Shawn, I’ll send that to you and you could have a look to see what your Scorpio one is.
Shawn:
I love that. Oh, my gosh. And yes, I would love to see all of your tattoos. Let’s do a gallery.
Speaker 2:
Excellent. Thank you so much, Shawn, for joining me today. It’s been really interesting to talk to you. What we’re going to do, is we’re going to put the link to your mastermind in our show notes. If anybody wants to check that out, they can do.
Shawn:
Fabulous. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:
Thank you for listening to the Numerologist Podcast. If you loved it, make sure you subscribe and don’t forget to check the show notes for an extra special free gift.
